Robert : It's impossible to talk about this because we never formed a band actually. It just developed from several people who played together, but there was never a conscious start. I've been playing with Lol for ten years. It never stopped changing from there.

- Were you part of a local scene ? There was probably not a lot of people playing your kind of music.

Robert : No, nobody. Crawley is too distant from Brighton and too close from London. It's stuck in the middle. In October 1976 we played for the first time, as a 5-piece, in front of an audience. It was at school, there was 300 people and we didn't know how to play very well. Just before that, we saw the Stranglers and Siouxsie and the Banshees playing in London and we realised it wasn't so important to know how to play music. But, of course, that high school audience didn't understand we were breaking rules and they were expecting a good old rock concert. They left very quickly, about 15 stayed ! They came on stage and we pulled the curtains. The room was completely empty. Then, we continued, we played in the local pubs, but it was informal. It was always the same people who came to see us. But we weren't bothered by that. We had no plans. We saw what happened with punk and for us it wasn't about attitude, life style or clothes but the fact to play music and above all choosing ourselves our objectives.

- It was five years ago, you were 17... How did you become interested in music ?

Robert : Everybody was more or less musician in my family. I prefered the old blues records from my older brother to nursery ryhmes.

It's what the three of us have in common, we all have older brothers, who made us discover in the 70's blues, psychedelic things, the first Pink Floyd records, Hendrix of course, Captain Beefheart... I was too young to assimilate but quite a lot stayed. Later, in 1973, I bought my first record, "Ziggy Stardust", like loads of kids. But I couldn't have an idol or being a fan. For exemple, I like "Saucerful of Secrets" and "Ummagumma" by Pink Floyd, but not the Syd Barret era. And it sounds awful, but I think it's preferable Hendrix died... Later, in 1976, after boring 1974-75, I was instantly hooked by the Sex Pistols.

Your first album, Three Imaginary Boys, is certainly the result of two different recording sessions. There are two kind of sounds...

Robert : We first recorded during four days the slow songs, my favorites, Three Imaginary Boys, Accuracy, 10:15... Then we had another four days session where we had the songs I hate : So What, It's Not You, Object... the closest ones to the punk spirit if you like. Then the album was a mixture of this. Actually, that was a good sample of what we were doing at the time. That means over a 18 months time. Amongst the 28 songs (the worst stayed unreleased) some were already very old. We trusted Chris Parry for the final track listing because he had a wider view than us. And we could take it and see how we would make progress from there. It was better than restricting ourselves. In any way, the album got noticed and it divided people who couldn't put us in a single category.

- In 1979, there were those two singles, Boys Don't Cry and Jumping Someone Else's Train, from which lots of people think of the Cure at its best...

Robert : Boys Don't Cry is my favorite as a pop song. That's why it was released as a single only, it didn't fit on the album. More for ourselves than anything else as it didn't sell very well. And Jumping was that kind of songs to get released separately as well. But nothing was planned, that was just because they seemed to be that kind of songs. It was a bit like a pop phase for the Cure, a transitive one when Jumping was released, Michael had almost left the band and our style was changing...

- The line-up changes got pretty much unnoticed. But they reflect how the band works. Can you explain ?

Robert : At this time, late 1979, there was that tour with the Banshees and little other things that made Michael stay in the band. But it became impossible to go on with him, I would rather have stopped the Cure. He was rejecting the new songs I was writing. He prefered playing faster things, and of course, it was his own right. He did great stuff with the Associates. But he didn't enjoy playing with the Cure anymore. I wasn't very friend with Michael anyway. Lol and I were hanging out with Simon, who is an old friend and one of the few that came to our shows since the beginning. When we had the opportunity, after the Banshees' tour, we played him some Seventeen Seconds demos and he was impressed. He always wanted to play with us.

- Then Matthew Hartley came and he got more and more important with time and concerts. At the beginning he was in the shadow, on the side, we could mistaken him for a roadie and then he played more and more stuff...

Robert : And then came the troubles ! We realised working on Seventeen Seconds that lots of ideas could be improved by adding a fourth instrument. We then called Matthew, which wasn't supposed to be a full member but just being able to play whatever instrument we needed. With time he considered he had become the official keyboard player of the band. He wanted to do solos keyboards parts and stuff like that. Actually, he had a different idea of how the Cure should sound like. As a consequence there was a musical incompatibility between us. We also had different tastes, he called me an old hippie because I liked Pink Floyd and Hendrix when he claimed Sparks were the precursors of punk. I could understand his frustration, it was probably difficult to play on a few songs only and not have main parts of the band's music. But this album was extremely personal to me, I had to impose most ideas of how it should be like and Lol and Simon accepted that. But when I showed Matthew the keyboards parts, he felt useless.

It's a state of mind. Our conception of the musicians. Personally, I wouldn't care if I wouldn't play on all the songs. I'm, above all, thinking about the songs themselves, not my guitar parts. What's important is the music, not the instruments. I've never considered myself as a guitarist and Lawrence has always prefered to play simple things. From that point of view, I could accept just being there as long as I enjoy the music. When Michael left the band, I almost joined the Banshees...

- Are you really the leader of the band then ?

Robert : Let's say I decide on the musical direction. Democracy works in another way with the three of us : song structures. But if there's a debate, I have the final word, because I have a clear idea of the way to go. In the case of a collective work, like on Faith, it takes place like this : I write a song based on a particular idea, I give it to them, they work on it and bring their own view which gets included on the song. And it gets built like this. Or we chose between three versions of the same song. I'm the leader in the sense I am the singer : it would be impossible to sing something if it wasn't part of me. But speaking about the music, each works on his own parts. We're on the same level but it's a question of a final decision. Let's say I have 40% and the others 30% each.

- The difference is striking between the first album and Seventeen Seconds...

Robert : It was the sound we were trying to achieve since the beginning. Three Imaginary Boys would have been very different if I had produced it. About the songs, it was obvious there would be people who liked It's Not You, So What and would hate Seventeen Seconds. But I don't care. I never thought people had to be pleased by including three fast songs on the album.

- Most songs are about lost or inaccessible love...

Robert : Yes, they talk about my relationship with a girl in particular. The break-up depressed me. The whole record is actually the reflection of a short time, hence the title, to mean just seventeen seconds can destroy what went on for six or seven years. That means... I thought I reached a point where nothing could affect me. But I discovered we could be vulnerable. It's like trusting somebody and being betrayed. That kind of things got me depressed and agressive... But it shows my attitude towards people in general as well. Which doesn't mean I'm cold and distant. Seventeen Seconds was the idea of getting one's reactions in a particular situation and getting aware. An intense experience.

- How do you react to that "cold wave" comparison ?

Robert : It's quite...stupid. I think what we do is more optimist than pessimist. The mistake comes from the fact that sometimes we allow ourselves to be strictly emotional. But nothing to do with Kraftwerk, even if they have good stuff. It's very easy to go on stage with an unexpressive face, to be in front of the microphone thinking "I'm a machine". That kind of things is almost a caricature and others tried to exploit that. I've never liked bands like Human League, for me that's a hopeless style. I can't make critics on the music today anyway, I don't listen to everything. I'm often surprised we are being compared to bands I hardly know and that I'm not interested in. Like it was the case when we first started with Talking Heads and Television. I find very difficult to talk about what we do like this, being restricted by people opinions or styles of music.

- Despite that, what bands do you feel close to ?

Robert : Those I like the most, that means, Public Image, Siouxsie & the Banshees, Joy Division or now New Order, even if they don't have the same dramatic dimension... We can't talk about influence, but there's something positive about those bands. It's people who do things outside the rules of pop music. I think we're close to certain bands by spirit, not musically. I barely listen to new records, I try to find unusual things.

- To me, there's like a paradox about the Cure. Your music is less and less accessible and you're being praised by people when the (English, at least) press never does it.

Robert : Music is accessible in comparison with the idea people have of the pop music. This idea changes and anyway I always thought I wasn't alone liking what we do. I think we're in the position where we could do anything and still have most of people following us because they don't expect anything in particular. I think it's more important than the press reaction, which isn't taken too seriously here. Music reviewers work from their own view with quite often a reputation and a name to protect. They tend to put bands in categories, celebrating those they like and denying the same ones afterwards. I suppose it's part of the rock business... and it doesn't concern us.

- You mean, the Cure musn't be considered as a rock band ?

Robert : Yes. Once again, we want to escape from any category. About the last record, we were told we became lethargic because our songs are longer... But why would we limit ourselves to three minutes pop songs ? Of course it's possible to express a feeling in three minutes, but it's also possible in three seconds... We play live and make records, I play guitar, Simon bass, Lawrence drums... We look like a rock band. But I don't think we're one because of crucial details in what we do. For exemple, the fact that people come to our shows to listen to songs... The way we do it, isn't like the traditional rock'n'roll way. It's like this review of Faith in the NME, where somebody wrote that during his youth the rock ideals were to take lots of drugs and sleep with lots of girls... Good for him, but using that simplistic vision to judge our music, sounds completely stupid to me. It doesn't saden me a lot because people don't pay much attention especially when it's so biased. But it can happen to new bands and ruin all their chances.

- What's the meaning of the word Faith as a title and theme on the album ?

Robert : Very abstract, but quite positive. At least at the beginning, it was meant to explore the idea of faith as the main to reason to be alive. As even outside religion, people's existences are driven by a faith, an ideal... And then there was always that idea to include our reactions or the ones from our relatives in a situation. For exemple, when somebody close to you dies... It happened to me personally, and then you realised how such an event can affect your vision of the world. Actually, the more we made progress on the album, the more it became depressing. We ended up rewriting Faith, the last song on the record, on a more positive view. There's always a faith.

- But what's your opinion today about religion ?

Robert : I don't have a clear feeling about it. I had a catholic education, which isn't common in England. Then around 15 or 16, I rejected all that. I'm not sure about the religious ideal but I admit the faith inspired great things, like cathedrals... There's always a very particular atmosphere.

- A bit like the one you wanted to express in Faith ?

Robert : Yes... Three months ago, I went to the church for the first time in years. And suddenly, all these pictures from my childhood came back. And I understood better. There's that temptation to step back, not believing in front of all these people praying together. .. It's very easy to miss essential things that way. The Holy Hour evokes a community. The Funeral Party and the Drowning Man, they're about this confrontation with death I was talking about... Those lyrics and the ones from Faith are very personal to me. But, for exemple, All Cats Are Grey's came from Lawrence and Doubt's from Simon. It's a collective work.

- There's always this enigmatic side around the Cure. Is it deliberate ?

Robert : I think it's because people find it difficult to identify themselves with some things that should be very specific to us. Like a brand. So they prefer ignoring us and we disappear !

- Do you hide behind your music ?

Robert : No, we are here. We never refuse interviews. But we don't especially seek promotion. We have an identity that goes through the music, the lyrics, the people who got involved. I don't understand very much the game of the rock stars, or yes I understand it, but I prefer being who we are... not getting recognized when we're signing records in a store. This contact with the audience is sane. We never prevent people from getting on stage or coming to see us after a show...


(Interview : François Gorin - Translated from French - Photo : Antoine Giacomoni)